30 Aug 2015 10:23:27
As I posted when Jose returned, we should be careful what we wish for! I have also posted recently that I think Jose's tactics are old-hat these days and have been surpassed by a much more open, free-flowing game. I don't ask this lightly but Is Klopp still available?
{Ed001's Note - yes.}
30 Aug 2015 11:09:24
Its tactics seemed to do the trick last season, so may I ask, is this just the fickle ramblings of your typical football fan, or have you been holding onto this thought in private for the past few seasons?
30 Aug 2015 11:54:29
It's not a knee-jerk response to yesterday - I feel that Jose's tactics were new and successful in his 1st period with us but things have moved on. Teams play a far more expansive game these days and Pardew out-thought and out-manoeuvred Jose yesterday, and tactically we look so old-fashioned.
We won the Prem last year before Christmas with open, attacking play; but, after the Tottenham defeat, Jose immediately reverted to his defensive formation from then until now. Why are we playing Fabregas so deep in a two with Matic at home to Palace? We play a fluid, interchangeable 3 behind Costa but this means that there is no one in the hole behind Costa. We rarely have more than Costa in the box when crosses come in - even at home. How often do the 3, or our midfield 2 hit the box? Rarely - never? Where's our new Frank Lampard?
Jose is obsessed with the opposition rather than imposing our creative players on them - just imagine Hazard playing in the Man City team - he would be a sensation and, I believe, score 20+ a season - look at the freedom that Sterling has.
In any relationship, it rarely works out if you go back. Jose won us the title last year but against a lacklustre City, a rebuilding Man U, road-crash signings at Liverpool, and Arsenal's usual promising much only to deceive. But I don't believe that Jose's tactics are sustainable in the modern game. Unless he is willing to revert to our pre-White Hart Lane attacking flair then I think we will struggle regardless of whether we buy Pogba, Stones, uncle tom cobbly and all!
The bottom-line is that Messi would never get in to a Jose team - he doesn't track back enough! Enuf said!
So Klopp is available - any takers?
30 Aug 2015 13:05:06
First time around we built from the back with pace the issue now is the pace from the back is too slow and from the middle always too deep. This is why we need the Rahman/Azi full back set up; doesn't solve other issues most alluded to somewhere this morning but I think Mourinho knows that is what is required and his comment about why he took Azi off and put Kenedy on I think endorses that and how much we may see young Kenedy playing this year; old head on strong young shoulders.
Our next manager: Diego Simeone.
30 Aug 2015 13:24:34
I don't think Klopp would be a good choice. His tactics would perhaps work for a season or 2 and then he'd be found out. And his time in Dortmund showed an inability to adapt.
I myself want Mourinho at our club for the longest possible time. He's an incredible manager and I can't really believe people keep doubting him. It presents a good question though. We've already had so many different managers. And if we don't want managers that we've had previously, what options are there if Mourinho left? Guardiola is a top manager, but I would stay away from him. Really dislike the guy and IMO he made Bayern worse instead of improving them. Simeone? Plays a similar style to Mourinho so you'd be moaning about him as well then. What top managers are there? :-)
30 Aug 2015 13:41:49
Pardew?
30 Aug 2015 13:42:10
So last season City were lacklustre, and yet with the same manager, using the same tactics, he was able to turn it around, but Chelsea, with the most successful manager in world football, have been, well lacklustre to kick off the season, and its time to sack the manager, who just signed a 3 year extension, and delivered us our first title in 5 years.
This is the one thing that worried me since day one of JM's return. We don't deserve him. The fans felt entitled to win with Jose returning. Once we won, the fans have started to moan about our style of play, and in general criticise ad abuse everyone from JM, to last years player of the year, to mainstays in the squad that have brought us more success then any player before them.
It sounds so familiar. Oh that's right, it happened the first time round when Jose left. Getting booed by sections of the fans at the Bridge and widely abused on forums like this for playing boring football. Remind me what happened during those next few years with managers, and who it was we all longed would return and once again deliver us glory. Yes we won trophies, and under Carlo even played some beautiful football while winning the title. But it didn't last and the merry-go-round continued.
In your own words, you should be careful what you wish for. And know, Klopp has said he is looking for a challenge. If you look at his resume, we don't tick the boxes.
30 Aug 2015 13:44:16
I would t take Klopp, his tactics are not too different to Jose. In which he gets players running themselves into the ground for him. Also why would we want a manager that had the same team that one the league and reached the champions league final and destroyed it. Fair play to him, he built that team but he was also ran it into the ground.
I'm happy with what we have, and would love for Jose to stay for the long term.
30 Aug 2015 14:11:26
For clarity Mrs Costa: I would be mortified if we lost Mourinho and all being well signings or not he will make the adjustments needed before the next game as alluded to in my comment. My reference to Simeone was after Mourinho has gone as he will only by 50.
30 Aug 2015 14:30:08
We played beautiful attacking football at the start of last season because we had a solid backline which could handle counter attacks. Come January some players were getting tired (Fabregas), others were injured/suspended (Costa), Cahill was off form, so we switched to a more defensive style in order to combat the issues we had.
This season we started late, so players aren't as fit and haven't found form yet. Terry, Ivanovic and Cahill are all off form and look a yard slower. Cesc still looks tired. We haven't reinforced our thin squad. Once we've sorted out our defence again, I think we'll see a return to attacking football.
30 Aug 2015 14:38:49
It may come down to this: do you want to go to the Bridge and see open, attacking football that gets you off your feet and sends you home happy even though there will be a few Tottenham type defeats or are you happy to sit twiddling your thumbs in boredom at the Bridge staring at the passing pigeons while Jose's team turgidly grinds out another 1-0 win but go home happy that we will probably win trophies?
Take your pick.
30 Aug 2015 15:00:29
So hold on, now your issue is we have been trudging to 1-0 victories? Just before you were complaining that Joses tactics were old fashioned and managers were out thinking him. 1-0 victories suggest he wouldn't be getting out thought. And we haven't been having 1-0 victories. You could even argue, that if you weren't a Chelsea fan, our games this year have been rather exciting. So what's your complaint, as your confused argument isn't holding firm.
Why do I only get your two, narrow, fantasy choices? And how do I get a guarantee that if Jose leaves we would be playing this expansive style of football you're banging on about. How many managers have we had since Jose's first spell? How many delivered this exciting brand to the Bridge? And how long until you bemoan them for not getting results?
This most certainly is knee jerk reaction, and whether you'd like to admit it or not, Mrs Costa, you are as fickle as most. Throw the toys out of the pram as soon as things don't go your way.
I'm extremely pleased others agree that Jose is the man for the job!
30 Aug 2015 15:31:47
Concerning Pardew's out maneuvering of Jose yesterday let's be honest, how difficult was it for him to know we are struggling defensively on our right side and to run 95 out of 100 attacks at Ivan. True, he used his best strategy for success by attacking our current weakness, but what else did you see him do that was special.
30 Aug 2015 16:33:08
Melbourne, the point I am making (as I made prior to the start of the season by the way) is that Jose is now a manager with old-fashioned tactics which have been by-passed by a new wave of more open attack-minded tactics. Football is ever evolving which makes it interesting and I doubt that Jose can adapt. You can ask 'Why should he?' given his record but I think it is blindingly obvious that other teams know exactly how we are going to play and set out their stall accordingly. As others have posted, where is plan B? Yesterday, Pardew concentrated on attacking Ivan when in possession, and withdrawing to a wall of 5 spread in front of their defence. Yes, anyone could have come up with those tactics having watched us since Xmas and therein lies the problem. Where's Jose's supposed tactical genius? Why isn't he at least tweaking the system to surprise the opposition? Where is Plan B when it isn't working? If Plan B is to send Zouma up front and lump balls up to him then, Jeez, I could be Chelsea's next manager!
I hope Jose turns it round but I have my doubts as he doesn't allow his creative players to concentrate on creating. And this is all so reminiscent of the season that he left - Roman not prepared to put his hand in his pocket, a slow start to the season, the players looking non-committal, Jose looking unhappy and upsetting the Board with comments made to the Press - watch this space.
30 Aug 2015 17:32:57
And once again I'll make the point we won the league last year and you are having the typical fickle response of a fan who has given up on their team after 4 games.
How long have his tactics been old fashioned? 2 months now? Or will you revert to the same argument, we beat teams who weren't playing well. Guess who didn't play well other than the champions the season before last. Everyone. And the year before that? Everyone. Last time United won the league, who was it that didn't play well? Everyone bar United. Actually United didn't even play all that well. Hold on, it can't be every year that only one team plays well, so maybe the opposition are getting better. So you'll argue that if Jose was any good of a manager he would stay ahead of the pack. Which means you think Pelligrini is a worthless manager after last year, even if they are smashing it this year, because you reevaluate managers in one year cycles, no? Or was he just off and his squad wasn't at full capacity for that year? But Jose doesn't get the same chance and isn't allowed to make the same excuses, because he bores you.
Feel free to jump ship mate and start the sack Jose campaign. Throw out the toys and show absolutely no patiencd or loyalty to the club. Its what every fan of every other club expects when they speak of the fans of our club that are entitled. But if you for a second think things would be different had we of signed Stones and Pogba, it might be worth noting Jose has attempted to land both. He attempted to land Varane in January, so saw problems with defence. He attempted to land Greizman earlier this window. So maybe he isn't quite as blind as you think and there's a reason he manages the club and you comment on this forum!
30 Aug 2015 18:02:51
Mrs Costa you are running riot here. Third in his first season back, winner last year and suddenly he is a 'manager with old fashion tactics'? At worst he is a manager with 'holes in his defence'. He is sending out a team that on paper are letting him down every which way but I am sure we will find, new signings or not, that Mr Mourinho will be as brutal as necessary. (Remember Courtois in, Cech out, bye bye Petr).
30 Aug 2015 19:44:44
Oh, Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne - what sort of argument is it that starts throwing around 'lack of loyalty to the club' because I have the temerity to question Jose's tactics? If this line of argument continues I'm going to do an Ed2 and refuse to answer!
31 Aug 2015 01:24:08
Is that a threat or a promise? ;)
The line was only 'thrown out' because of the ridiculous argument you are making and it being evident you have a personal problem with Jose. You said yourself you had issue with him when he first returned and you wouldn't be the first lady who is looking to feel vindicated by their prediction.
Taken issue with my line of argument, rather then answering any of the questions I posed, only makes you seem ever more ridiculous. You wouldn't be the first to use that tactic either though mate.