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24 Jul 2019 07:55:19
Here are some stats.

Jorginho rated better for tackles per game in the Premier League with 3.4, Fabinho scored the same but has a much smaller threshold for the average, having played 13 less matches whilst the veteran Fernandinho only recorded 2.7 per game. In terms of interceptions, Chelsea's man outperformed them again - registering 1.7 per game in comparison to Fernandinho's 1.4 per game and Fabinho's rounded 1.0. What's even more impressive is that despite recording more tackles and more interceptions, Jorginho had less fouls than the pair too. In the Premier League, he averaged 0.9 fouls per game - slightly lower than the Liverpool midfielder's 1.0 and Fernandinho's 1.4. That's just defensively too.

The pass success rate between all three was rather close but again, the 27-year-old nudged ahead averaging 89.3% compared to the City man's 87.5% and Fabinho's 85.3%. For key passes per game, both the Italian and Fernandinho tied with 0.8 whilst the Champions League winner rated much lower with 0.6 per game.

{Ed001's Note - those stats mean nothing though, other than being an interesting talking point. Making more tackles could mean he was caught out of position. Giving away less fouls could mean he was (again) out of position so unable to get near enough to make a 'tactical' foul when needed. When running a high press, the deepest midfielders main job initially is to block passing lanes, to stop the ball being able to be played forward. It could be that he is not doing that well enough on the initial press and being bypassed so that he is put in a position of having to make a challenge or interception.

And the key passes stat is useless in anyway, every statistical company has a different idea of what they are. It is like the assist stat in that it is largely meaningless. Oh and pass success rate is another one that comes down to so many factors.

Basically these stats lack any context so are utterly meaningless and could be read as both good and bad. I remember a few years ago, when Gueye was at Villa, he bettered Kante's (then at Leicester) stats in almost every area, more tackles, more interceptions etc, but Kante was (and is) clearly light years ahead of him as a player. A lot of it comes down to the team you play for, the way they play will be a huge factor in how those stats end up.

For starters it won't take into account that Fabinho played centre back a number of times, or that he often played as part of a midfield two. Or that Fernandinho had to decapitate an opponent for a foul to be given.

Also there are not enough data points to rule out anomalies. You need thousands of reoccurences of a situation for it to be a clear picture. That is why you sometimes get the anomaly of one-season wonder players, as they only have to have a good run of 30 games or so where they play better than their actual base level. A statistical analysis would usually want 1000s of incidences to rule out anomalies but players don't even play that many games in their whole career. Which is why statistical analysis is so tricky in football, you have no idea if you are looking at anomalies when you look at a set of stats or not.

Sorry I got carried away then. It is just that I used to get so annoyed seeing the media proclaim Gueye as the best midfielder in the Prem because he had 'better' stats than Kante.}

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Jul 2019 10:13:42
Absolutely love that ed! I hate stats in football I think they’re ridiculous. Jorginho improved over the season and hope he continues that this year. Let’s not try argue that he wasn’t bypassed with ease countless times and was a defensive liability playing in that position.

{Ed001's Note - I actually love stats, what I hate the out of context use of stats to try and prove a point, as I showed there, you can read them a number of ways and not actually be wrong. That is the big key in analysis - not just weighting the stats by how important they are, but providing context to them. That is where the research and innovation is working.}

24 Jul 2019 11:20:31
I really don’t think they’re a useful tool in football. As a lover of basketball aswell, I love stats in that sport but as you said they’re incredibly misleading.

Interesting to see the stats the OP posted however.

{Ed001's Note - they are interesting I agree but people jump to conclusions from them or use them to make a point and that's when they become a problem.}

24 Jul 2019 13:18:59
Ed1 very good counter arguments to the stats. Everything you said is very balanced and makes sense and gives a perfect counter explanation. Your right some stats are good and some ain't. The ones I have posted are ones that can be easily countered.

Main thing to take from it is that Jorginho has improved a lot and I think he will have a massive say in our season. Hopefully he does well.

{Ed001's Note - for me he is like a metronome, he sets the team tempo. However a metronome is only as good as those using it. If you surround him with crap players, he will not make them better, but if you give him good players to play with, he will make sure they get the ball to show how good they can be.}

24 Jul 2019 13:45:48
Agreed Ed.

His taken a lot of criticism and mainly because he was Sarri's prodigal son. A lot of it unfair but he seems to be showing toughness these days, massively improved player and underrated. Lampard has said a lot of glowing things about him already.

{Ed001's Note - I think you have hit his biggest problem on the head, he was Sarri's baby so was fighting against that stigma from the start. Unfortunately Sarri, for some reason, was always swimming against the tide with a large portion of Chelsea fans.

Why did so many dislike Sarri from the start? I got it with Rafa, even though he did a good job for you imo, he was never going to win over the fans because of his time with Liverpool and the rivalry with Jose. That one is understandable, even if it made no sense when he was brought in to continue to hold it against him to me. But I get why some couldn't look past it. But what did Sarri do to alienate so many from the start? I am sure there must be a reason but I missed it.}

24 Jul 2019 14:22:49
I was for and against Sarri, at the end I though give him a window and invest and kick in but he wanted out because of many reason, he was stubborn, all Changes were like for like and on occasion said silly things, example kante not good enough on the ball to play jorginho role. kante is very good on the ball, not as good as jorginho but what he lacked in one thing he added legs and ground and being able to break lines going forward. And we seemed to pass the ball for the sake of it, seemed he go found out early in with man marking jorginho and relying on hazard who Sarri said didn’t play the way he wanted team, which I understood but didn’t need to be said when hazard carried us to a semi successful season.

{Ed001's Note - I get that some might have lost faith in him, I was talking about the ones who were against him even before he arrived and refused to give him a chance.}

24 Jul 2019 14:25:59
I didn’t want Sarri as our manager for non football reasons but for the life of me I couldn’t understand the total hatred from some fans and posters.

We were told it was a project but some people just couldn’t get it.

Anyway, it’s Lamps now so onwards and upwards.

24 Jul 2019 14:29:31
ED001 I wanted Sarri to stick around and I think he would have done good. But one thing that bugged me especially during the middle of the season was that Chelsea became like Arsenal under wenger. We were getting bullied by teams.

Over the past decade one thing that has defined Chelsea to me is our grit, from Champions league win to dominating teams physically but that suddenly seemed to evaporate.

Maybe it is the new generation of players but to me there were still signs of that under Conte. Even during the 13 match winning streak when were playing brilliant football under Conte we still could still win the game by fighting and that was lost under him.

To me that is what Chelsea is winning at all costs. Man Utd say they play a certain way and Liverpool also but Chelsea has always stood for that will to win and giving everything. That was lost under him.

As a club we have won against teams who were much better then us because of this strength but I lost hope that we could do that under him.

But I think if he would have stuck around we could have find a new way which wasnt based on this strenght and grit but on knowing on the system being a stronger team.

Guess we will never know.

24 Jul 2019 15:09:48
We are so lucky to have Ed001 amongst us!

{Ed001's Note - thank you Roman, very nice of you to say so. My face is redder than my t-shirt right now!}

24 Jul 2019 23:34:50
CFCShak, is Jorginho your love-child or is he paying you to promote him?

26 Jul 2019 19:23:34
Anyone that can't see Jorginho's quality should proofread his/ her understanding of central midfield.



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