07 Apr 2025 11:59:03
Ax exert from the athletic
'Everyone at man city accepts they've had a bad season, everyone at manchester United know they have a massive rebuilding job to do
But people at chelsea are still trying to convince themselves and the world they're onto a good thing'
Thoughts?
07 Apr 2025 12:16:20
I would say you would find the dark even in heaven.
I hope your not this down on everything in life.
07 Apr 2025 12:22:18
We are a poor team at the moment playing unattractive football and not scoring enough goals. We are where we are because the teams around us are not consistent.
07 Apr 2025 12:29:21
I wouldn’t have a clue what “onto a good thing” refers to. Maybe they consider there initial investment is worth more now than when they purchased it?
I think a lot of fans believed that we required a rebuild and that it would take time. I think the owners made mistakes and I think it was Ed002 who said we were poorly advised in there early days of ownership.
I have taken the view that we are now a trading company first and then a football team as far as the owners are concerned.
I also think it will take City and Utd several seasons to rebuild and depending on transfers we might see the scousers struggle a bit more next season. The gooners, Villa and Newcastle could be well placed for next season but I also think we will improve to be serious challengers for the title.
07 Apr 2025 17:40:33
I'm critical of the owners, I'm critical of the sporting directors, in both cases I feel there's an element of too many cooks spoiling the broth (or, in the owners case, fighting over it) .
But, next season, we could well be saying, what an amazing achievement it is getting Palmer and Estevao Willian into the squad. If, and it's a pretty big if, we could be a solid GK and ST away from signing the praises of those running the club (and that we got our Chelsea back) .
Fans and, in this case, the press are, in general, very fickle with a rollercoaster of views. Win, I love them. Loose, I want them out.
07 Apr 2025 18:33:26
“J” I couldn’t agree more, us fans are a very fickle bunch.
The owners, manager and SD’s were generally getting praised just a few months ago. If we win a few games the complaints will be less loud.
07 Apr 2025 21:27:42
And if we don't win Tom?
07 Apr 2025 22:42:29
Funnily enough I think it's a silly comment. I think all chelsea fans recognise further additions are necessary and I think tom is xorrect there will be a number of sales.
Still, my only critique is after spending 1.3 billion pounds we should not still require a spine. I think countless mistakes have been made but thankfully if you spend that much money you're going to be okay, and players like cucurella, James, caicedo and palmer will be key to that. My only hope is we don't lose palmer. A strong summer with a GK, CB and ST is necessary.
08 Apr 2025 03:46:43
Bill, obviously if we lose then the complaints become louder.
08 Apr 2025 04:51:33
The owners have on occasion in my opinion been rightly criticised.
The SD’s put forward buying suggestions and the club/ owners try there best to get there No1 choices.
The club has invested in GK’s and CH’s. The players we have signed in this two positions might not be to ever fans liking or the player, so far, may not have performed to there best but that is a different issue. All clubs make transfer mistakes, given how many transfers (buying and selling) we have made in the last three seasons I guess it was always likely that we would make more mistakes than other clubs. Just on averages.
The signing of a CF was something that the club tried to achieve last summer but unfortunately and for whatever reason it didn’t happen. The club in my opinion made a decision in the January window to go again with the two main CF’s already at the club. Unfortunately they both got injured at virtually the same time. Also, I don’t recall any top CF’s being available in January.
As a fickle fan It’s unlikely I will be happy with certain players that the club sign. There will be certain players I would like the club to sign. Also, if they did sign the players I wanted there wod be other fans who wouldn’t want them signed.
So, I ask myself is my criticism really about investment in players or is my criticism more about the club not signing the players that I want or think we need because they are two different things. In my case it’s the latter.
Going forward and of course this is just me guessing. I don’t think we will sign a GK. I also think that is likely that Petrovic will start next season as our No1 having performed very well at Strasbourg. For me his performances have shown how good the loan system can be for a player and the club.
I think we will sell two CH’s, Disasi and probably BB. This could mean we sign another CH particularly if Fofana isn’t recovered from his muscle injury surgery.
I don’t think we will sign any midfield players but I can see us selling/ loaning at least two maybe three.
I think we will sign Gittens and sell them Chuka (sadly) and possibly Sancho. I also think that Noni will be sold. I hope they replace him with George who to me looks useful.
Any CF signing will be interesting. My historical No1 choice was Osimhen but I think that ship has sailed. I can’t see Newcastle selling Isak next season so I think we might go for Sesko or Delap. My preference would be Sesko. One long shot would be a CF like Tammy but he would want to start and anyway I think he is going to the happy hammers.
As I’ve said, whatever happens I won’t be entirely happy (I’m just a fan) but I won’t treat it to seriously either. Next season I expect to be far more bullish about our prospects but if my club fails to win anything it will just be like the vast majority of my Chelsea supporting life. Not the end of the world.
08 Apr 2025 09:44:32
Going in to next season we will have Estevao Willian looks a top player, Santos should also come into the squad, IF we dont't buy a keeper I hope Penders is good enough to be our nos 1, think Petrovich was a 7/ 10 keeper better than Sanchez but if we want to be challenging we need better.
CF is difficult I do like Delap although who knows if he will be any better than Guiu in a few years time. My other choice would be Sesko but David from Lille on a free is more likely
Who leaves is a bit harder hopefully both goalkeepers Jorgenson on loan.
Sterling Chillwell Felix Diasi will be playing elsewhere else if we need funds expect Madueke Dewsbury Hall Chalobah and one of Sancho or Mudryk (if he hasn't disappeared forever) to be sold.
Although if it was my choice would keep Mudryk as there to my eye a player in there.
08 Apr 2025 13:19:15
Everybody hyping Estevao Willian before he's even kicked a ball in the Prem. Yes, he looks talented in highlights reels with crap soundtracks. Yes, he's highly rated in Brazil (so was Robinho) . But he'll be 18 years old this month. Have you seen the size of his legs?! The Prem is a tough, physical league. And for all the hype, he's coming into a squad of similarly very young players with no leaders, and little direction. You need experienced players showing the young players how to be professional in training and their personal lives, how to battle in hard moments. You don't learn this stuff just by being at a club for more than one or two seasons (which isn't much, but more than most of our players can say) – it's to do with an entire culture and attitude within the organisation. My guess, if I'm being realistic, is that this new Willian's Chelsea career will mirror our squad's journey this season – taking league by storm for two or three months, then succumbing to a combination of injuries and malaise (before being sold to a major European club and flourishing) .
At the end of the day almost none of these players the SDs have bought have the grit or determination to overcome difficult moments – Caicedo is a battler, as is Cucurella; Tosin looks to have a decent mindset, and Jackson also keeps plugging away. But Palmer looks increasingly frustrated with his surroundings, whilst the rest just succumb to it every time, heads down, tails between legs.
Since the takeover the club appear to have bought purely on statistics – the only difference since the arrival of the SDs is age – and not looking at all at the personalities of the players. And that goes for many of the older players as well – Sterling and Nkunku are prime examples; Noni is talented, but a prima donna; Enzo flatters to deceive, all bark and no bite; Neto seems insecure; Sanchez is all bluster and no brain. Again, all these qualities would probably be fine if they were young players coming into a team with at least a few seasoned professionals to steady the ship, help them out on the pitch in tough moments. Fight for the three points rather than one in those last ten minutes, or the one point rather than none. A lot of teams are trending younger these days, as the academy system produces more and more finely tuned footballing robots. But the difference with, say, Madrid introducing Camavinga, Tchoameni, Bellingham or Endrick to the team is that they're starting off playing alongside Kroos, Modric etc. They're learning from winners. Our club is like a nursery run by the toddlers.
08 Apr 2025 13:55:14
Interesting post EdW but I don't agree with any of it.
08 Apr 2025 14:28:22
If fans want to make judgements on players before they have even kicked a ball for Chelsea that’s up to them but I will wait and give the young players a chance in Chelsea blue before I make a judgement. Strangely I have no inclination to see the “size of his legs.
As far as player assessments are concerned we all players differently and we all have biased views.
Time will tell if the current trend of most clubs buying young talent is astute or just a way of maintaining player value.
08 Apr 2025 14:39:31
Agree with it all Edw. I think we're in a good position like Liverpool was where we require an Allison/ van Dijk pair of signings with experience to lead us forward.
Again to reiterate my criticism, this shouldn't be required after 1.3 billion pounds. It's an embarrassment of riches and a total we almost certainly won't Recoup. They also haven't learnt from there mistakes but it is what it is.
08 Apr 2025 15:46:18
Edw don't agree with hardly any of it either Cacaido has grit and fantastic determination as in my mind do quite a few of our squad , Palmer not on the best of form but it's a stretch to say he is not happy in his surroundings.
Agree that we haven't seen Estevao in the Prem yet, but you certainly get kicked a lot in Brazil.
08 Apr 2025 16:27:40
I haven’t got a clue if the amount we have invested in players will be “recouped” and I hope I never find out.
With loan fees, transfer fees and agents fees it becomes to much for my old head. I also had an accountant mate trying to explain “book value after consideration of amortisation. ” I made out I cared.
I have always have more concerns about the ability of the players we invest in rather than anything else.
Palmer seems happy enough to me but I’m only guessing.
I would have more concerns about players like Chuka than some of the players who I haven’t seen but have been mentioned on this thread.
08 Apr 2025 17:02:24
Edw, I agree with most of your post. As for Willian I am not expecting much from him next season. This is an 18 year old, leaving his family to live in a different culture and having to learn a new language. As to his footballing attributes, I have no idea. Certainly not judging him.
08 Apr 2025 17:04:15
Quite why people get so upset at the owners spending shed loads of their money is rather strange. I don't care if they spend another billion as it is their money. They have not not put the club in debt like the Man U owners and we are on the right side of FFP which might even go if Man City come out on top against the relevant authorities. Besides, I actually think a profit will be made on the investment over the next few years although that is just my opinion.
{Ed001's Note - you really don't understand the finances of football do you?}
08 Apr 2025 17:36:10
I would also assume that VVD and Allison were in there early to mid twenties when they joined Liverpool.
I think there are sometimes just born leaders regardless of age. VVD always looked like a
leader as did our very own JT who must have been very young when he was made captain.
08 Apr 2025 17:46:54
I think it's great that we all see things so differently (apart from the fact we need a new keeper) but we all want to see Chelsea do well.
As TomB said we all have our favourites and different perspectives . I am a pessimist it life but mn optimist as far as Chelsea is concerned it may take a year or two but I see us back competing with the best.
08 Apr 2025 18:08:11
Seymns, we look a completely different team with Jackson back from injury. We apparently had about twenty shots in our last game and him and Palmer look made for each other.
I personally think Jackson is so underrated.
08 Apr 2025 18:11:23
I agree with what I think is the major argument of your post EdW which is that it is a big gamble not to have a greater proprtion of experenced players in the squad. But as many of us have been saying for a long time now, the ofdest thing about tghis squad building has been the apparent lack of attention to building a really top notch spine of leaders to the first team -- from GK through CB to DM to AM to striker. I do think Caicedo is top notch though and EF might still get there. Cucurella has been this season proving himself to be a LB of genuine international quality. A few others among the youngsters might do so too andsurely Palmer can be one of them even if his form has dropped off lately. He has played much better when Jackson is on the field and last season when Gallagher diod so much of the Kante like grass covering work (yes even if CG not prime NK standard) in midfield alongside Caicedo.
I do think that our wingers have largely been underwhelming though Neto has most often impressed - occasionally considerably so - and Madueke has shone in patches.
I continue to like Jackson though we do need another striker - not least cos Jackson cannot be relioed upon to stay fit and play every game but also cos we could really do with someone excellent in the air and a nd/ or a real poacher. WE are crying out for a Terry or Carvalho like commanding CB ok or in the van Dyck mould.
08 Apr 2025 19:11:22
Sorry for having an opinion ED01.
{Ed001's Note - having an opinion is fine but that doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. You don't and you are on a discussion site where other viewpoints will be given.}
08 Apr 2025 19:31:09
Ok fine.
08 Apr 2025 20:49:07
Your just sticking up for your club Dubai. I understand it. End of the day we all want the best for our club and everyone cheers and supports the team no matter what (unless they're not actually fans)
Ed001, do you see us getting champions league? I'm 50/ 50 on it.
{Ed001's Note - you should do.}
08 Apr 2025 22:09:45
Sorry, just to clarify for everyone misunderstanding an element of my post – Caicedo, Cucurella and Jackson were three examples I gave of players we've bought who I do think have the right attitude to succeed. Palmer I would add to that list for his obvious talent, but my worry is that he, to my eyes, seems to be losing patience with the teams' obvious weaknesses. Are any of the above actual leaders though? Not sure. Jackson is a hothead, Cucurella is a wind-up merchant. Caicedo possibly – he's vocal on the pitch, and looks like he could become one.
DubaiAnna – 'which might even go if Man City come out on top against the relevant authorities' is a frighteningly casual way of writing about that prospect. I hope you understand why I say I could not be more invested in that outcome not taking place. If it does, football as an interesting, competitive sport is basically over – and, perhaps, more than that besides.
Standard – yes, exactly. Except we're still not looking at the VVD/ Alisson-type players. We're only looking at players in other clubs' academies. Maybe that will change, I don't know.
JBS – Yes, agreed. And we sold Gallagher for Felix, Kellyman, KDH. And we've bought a hatful of wingers, and keep buying them, and if you put three or four of them together you'd have a decent player (but still with a poor attitude) . I also like Jackson – his injury surely showed those fans who haven't rated him what he brings to the team. As Standard said, as you've said and as Jimbo (I think) has also said before, how on earth are we in the position of still needing core parts of the spine of a team (GK, CB) after 1bn spent.
TomB – I'm gutted about Carney. I was so excited when he arrived and really hope he bounces back from this to a decent career. I think he's a top player, but with young guys these kinds of experiences can really mess them up for years to come. And that human element is my biggest issue with the treatment of players as assets. You always say you've accepted this now, but if we accept that kind of commoditisation of football we're also accepting our position as so-called 'legacy' fans of a club – accepting, gratefully, the right to be treated like dirt by distant billionaires. If you're happy with that future then good on you. I am not.
Ed001, I hope you're well mate.
{Ed001's Note - all good thanks EdW, really interesting post that.}
08 Apr 2025 22:47:49
Great post edw. That's also my problem with the loan army. Some young players will relish being sent out on loan but some rely on being brought through in a good environment. Farming everyone out, was not helpful for all players imo. It needed to be a case by case basis.
I liked your comments about the human aspect. I like mydryk, I think he's talented, but I can't help but feel we've badly affected him by pushing him through a bit of a turmoil time for the club. Who knows how he'd be doing at a settled environment if he went to arsenal?
09 Apr 2025 05:14:29
Edw, we used to have and I still hope we have a good support mechanism for loaned players. This included regular face to face interaction with the players.
Standard, from what I know we have supported Mudryk at every level since he arrived in London. That included initial home sickness, family in Ukrain and the latest drug related problem. He may well have flourished as a player at a different club or league but that is obviously just guesswork. It just as easily been worse, although that’s hard to imagine. The managers we have had all seem from the outside to have supported him and been protective of him.
09 Apr 2025 05:33:00
Sorry, I should have added that I can’t see us stopping the signing of young players but we have got players with world and premiership experience. As I’ve said the mentioned of Allison and VVD both joined the scousers at a relatively young age, one had no premiership experience and I think the other only had one season in the premiership at Southampton.
I have said that the team could do with leader type players but I’m not sure age is the only deciding factor on that score. Some players just seem natural leaders to me. I do think some more experienced players within the playing squad like Silva, would be useful. Tosin is apparently very good in the dressing room but I think “a seen it dunnit got the tee shirt” type player would be good.
09 Apr 2025 09:16:11
Interesting discussions, I'm very much on the same page as EdW.
The point about Estevao is interesting, clearly he is a top, top talent, but is Chelsea currently the right environment for that talent to thrive? I remain sceptical.
Ed001, I appreciate you aren't a Chelsea fan so may not have any insight here, but how long can you foresee this lack of success being tolerated by the ownership? No matter which way you slice it, an outlay of £1.5bn for league finishes of 12th, 6th and 5th-9th (presumably) will surely have eyebrows being raised? We won the Champions League 4 years ago! Hope you are well and have the champagne on ice.
{Ed001's Note - I think it all comes down to seeing progress - ie they will want to finish higher this season than last and the same the following season. I am not sure they know enough about the game to understand if playing styles are a concern or not, so they will base it purely on statistics that they can understand. A higher place in the table or more points than the previous season will be the aim for now.
When they set out on this plan of buying youth, they must have realised it would not be a quick fix. Even if just from their own sports, where young teams always have a few veterans sprinkled amongst them to guide them. As they never even tried to add those, it does very much seem like the real aim is to buy young and then sell later for a profit, rather than being about winning trophies to be honest.}
09 Apr 2025 09:22:55
Anna, don't worry if people don't agreexwith you, it's your opinion and that's all what matters, you are entitled to it.
I for one have been kicked so many times and I would suggest, most posters have.
We don't post negativity just to get a response, we do so because we feel something is mot right with the club we support.
09 Apr 2025 09:40:06
Thanks Ed, I honestly fear that less points and a lower league position are on the cards this season!
I can't square the circle of player trading being the ultimate aim of a PE-backed ownership group. Let's just say that all the PE guys I have come into contact with have 'robust' egos. The idea that they would be happy to make miniscule profits off of player sales with minimal on-pitch success just doesn't track with me. But I could be completely wrong on that.
Bringing in a wise head like Luis Campos would go some way to allaying my fears.
{Ed001's Note - it is not about making the money off that as such, the aim is to raise the value of the asset as a whole. A robust trading model of players being sold at profit does that, along with investment in the infrastructure. It is a more stable way of increasing value than going for trophies, which can end up costing money rather than making it.}
09 Apr 2025 09:42:26
Ed001, I agree. I see us as trading club that buys and sells commodities.
As things stand there is no way I could see our club giving extended contracts to players like VVD or Salah. In my opinion they would look at there salaries as a cost and two players with no sell on value. As a fan I would see that as shortsighted as those type of players could almost guarantee Champions League qualification and that would give the club a much bigger return on there investment.
Anyway it’s just me thinking out aloud.
{Ed001's Note - they are not fans and didn't get into it for the sport, so they view things so differently from us.}
09 Apr 2025 10:34:23
They are about business first and foremost. A lot of teams seem to have the same sort of owners.
{Ed001's Note - almost all now. It can still be beneficial and put the club in a stronger position in the long term - Brighton are the proof of that. Bloom is very much about business but they are able to grow gradually due to that. It is a much more stable way to run a club, long term it should mean success, so long as the infrastructure is attended to properly.}
09 Apr 2025 10:56:27
Ed, that’s a very good point and comparison.
I guess as fans that have been spoilt on success we have a tendency to be impatient and we can all see the mistakes that have definitely been made.
Anyway, I hope I’m in better health for next season. I’ve missed watching games live at the bridge. This weekend is another game I will be missing.
{Ed001's Note - usually there is an exit plan, they raise the value of the asset and then sell up to get their profits, rather than a gradual return via bonuses etc. The kind of money they will get from that is peanuts for them. The standard time frame is between 5-10 years. So they will be looking and planning that far ahead, while as fans, we are looking at the here and now. You do need to have patience, which is difficult for us as we do not have access to the plan and our desire is to win trophies, not to make the club value's rise.
Fingers crossed you are healthy for the new season Tom. Watching games live is defo better than on TV.}
09 Apr 2025 12:33:57
Thanks Ed, that’s very kind and that trip I had planned to Dubai has had to be put on hold as well.
In my opinion you are correct. We don’t know the BP and patients is required.
I had this mad theory about wealthy businessmen and women building multi club and multi sports empires to then create individual franchise season tickets for media sales. If that makes sense?
{Ed001's Note - you will need to expand on that theory for me Tom, I am half asleep so nothing is making much sense. Shame about your trip to Dubai but hopefully you will be able to make it soon.}
09 Apr 2025 12:56:10
Ed, I will expand upon it when I’ve worked it out for myself. I’m just trying to find ways of working out why these business people want to invest so much money is various sports franchises.
Anyway thanks for your input and get some sleep.
{Ed001's Note - it is all about making money from them, usually through investing to increase value and then a sale.
Odd you say that as I was just thinking of having a nap.}
09 Apr 2025 22:02:28
Super interesting discussion this, thanks to everyone involved for all points made and to Ed001 for insight. Somewhere Ed002 is calling us all a bunch of clueless idiots.
Tom, I just want to say I hope your health is on the up long before next season.
10 Apr 2025 08:21:40
Thanks EdW. ?.