28 Feb 2024 10:58:31
Ed001, there has naturally been a lot of talk about Poch following the final. I was wondering what your thoughts are on him, and who you think could come in and replace him if he leaves?
From the outside looking in, I am beginning to fear that the Chelsea job is becoming an impossible one. I suppose if someone new comes in, at least these players will have had a year of playing together so there will presumably be less bedding in like we saw at the start of the season, and fingers crossed less injuries throughout.
I personally feel that if the sporting directors are planning on bringing in a proper striker and perhaps a player who can be more of an on pitch leader, we are better off just sticking with Poch and reassessing this time next year? I have no idea if Jose coming back is realistic or not, but you would have to think that he would demand some experienced, battle-hardened players and if you are going to give him or any new manager that, doesn't it make sense to give it to the man you already have?
And finally, a belated congratulations to you for the win on Sunday. It must feel like a real triumph given the circumstances.
{Ed001's Note - I think Poch is a loser, his whole set up on Sunday showed that. He doesn't have that drive to just go and win and you need to replace him or turn into Spurs and accept never winning anything. It is not an impossible job, it just needs a stronger man at the helm.
He was the wrong choice for a team that has aspirations of winning trophies. He is a lower half manager, someone who can overachieve when there is no pressure, but under pressure his teams have no discipline and so are prone to folding. I get that you don't have a fully fit striker, but Jackson has looked good when playing out wide but he still keeps switching him to the centre, rather than just looking for another solution there and keeping Jackson where he excels.
There is no clear plan of development for players under Poch. At least with a Jose or similar, you know the players understand their instructions and why they need to do it. Whereas with Poch you watch Chelsea and the players are often just unsure of what their role really is. I think you really need to consider whether the time is right for a return for Mourinho. I know his second spell was a bit ropey, but he showed at Roma that he still has a lot to offer. The Roma fans love him and did not agree with his sacking. That is if it is an immediate change. If not you can start looking at people like Slot and Amorim as alternatives, though it must be said there is no outstanding option for Chelsea. While I love Alonso and would love him at Liverpool, I would not think it is the right place at Chelsea for him right now. The whole set up is lacking experience, so I think you need a more experienced head to guide them as well. Someone who understands the need to win at the club. It is about who fits the club. The problem is that there are so few good experienced men out there right now, which is why Jose stands out. There is a whole generation of new young coaches, but none with the experience to deal with what is going on.
And thank you mate, it was an incredible feeling. Not just all the injuries and having to throw in kids who were playing in front of 50 people until a few weeks ago, it is also the Klopp leaving and having to replace an entire midfield in the summer after such a poor season. I don't think anyone expected us to be in there challenging for everything still at this stage after last season and then the summer.}
28 Feb 2024 11:39:22
Ed, like you I was against Poch becoming our manager and that belief had nothing to with him be ex
Spurs. I do think the club will give him until the end of the season and my guess is our new owners are constantly evaluating his and others performances during the season.
As much as will have fond memories of Jose as our manager but I do not want him back at our club for a third time. For me he two stints as our manager didn’t end well.
The manager at Sporting Lisbon gets good reviews from some quarters but I did read one article that described his style of football as “pragmatic. ” I wouldn’t have a clue if that’s a reasonable observation. It was also mentioned, I think by another poster, that he prefers to play three at the back.
Anyway, as I keep saying, for obvious reasons I hope Poch is our manager for years to come.
I did pass on my congratulations to your teams victory on your site just after the match. Stay safe and thanks for everything.
{Ed001's Note - pragmatic I think is what you need right now though. Just get players to perform and get settled. It is just about the next step in the development of the club under the new owners. The ship needs steadying and put on the right path right now.
Thank you Tom, you too mate.}
28 Feb 2024 11:42:36
Thanks for detailed response Ed, have to agree with most of what you have said. My hope when Poch came in was that he would settle the club down due to his experience from PSG, similar to Tuchel in that respect, and we would see some tangible progress. While I do think that we have been better than results suggest, I am beginning to question if that much has changed since last season? We certainly look better on the eye and are scoring more, but results still seem to elude us.
I also agree that we need someone who has been there and done it as manager if we are going to change, regardless if we do it now or in the summer. We can't have a manager that is learning on the job in the same way the squad is. That would be my fear with Slot or Amorim, are they ready to take on what is proving a very difficult task? Alonso I would assume is choosing between Bayern and Liverpool, or perhaps has an eye on Madrid in a couple of years time. I would have loved to see the old River Plate boss come in, Gallardo, but he's managing in Saudi now I think. I actually have a very loose connection to Jose, via someone who has worked with him on occasion and is due to again this year, so I will try and get some inside info for an old school rumours post!
On Jackson, I am one of the more vocal supporters of his. He was forced into playing up front for Villarreal last season and it's clear he isn't fully comfortable there, but I think he has shown lots of bright sparks this season and he gave Konate a real runaroud on Sunday. Him coming off is actually what spelt the end in my opinion.
I was sat next to the Liverpool fans and I was very envious of the celebrations at the end, coupled with the utter despair I was feeling. I do wonder if Chelsea had thrown on a load of academy kids if things would have been any different? Golding, Hutchinson, Stutter and Castledine all play with huge energy and I struggle to think they would have been any worse than Mudryk and Madueke. The fact only one was on the bench was confusing.
{Ed001's Note - if Poch was braver, perhaps he would have done and you would have had a chance, but he is not.}
28 Feb 2024 12:06:21
Jose is the only option. What do you do when your club is lacking an identity? Get the biggest identity In football at the helm. Not signing rice and opting for caicedo instead was the biggest mistake so far in the Boehly error. Passing on Jose would be the second biggest.
28 Feb 2024 12:28:20
Your obsession with the player now playing for the gooners is well known as is your dislike for Caicedo. The club has now moved on, is it just possible that you might as well.
In my opinion the appointment of Jose would be a mistake for the reasons I have given many times before.
28 Feb 2024 12:49:50
RBD, your comments on Jackson are in my opinion well made. Fans should remember the first two seasons of Drogba. His first season was bang average and his second season was only marginally better.
It will be interesting to see if Jackson proves himself to be a quality addition to our squad. I have a feeling he will become a success at our club.
28 Feb 2024 12:36:06
Thanks ED01 for your detailed comments. It echoes exactly my sentiments, delaying changing Poch will just put us further back. Jose is the only answer right now, is available and understands the club inside out. It really is a no brainer and I'm hoping the club act soon and put us on the right path.
{Ed001's Note - very welcome G8. I do think keeping Poch is just delaying the inevitable and only makes sense if Jose is not the replacement and the chosen replacement can't be obtained now.}
28 Feb 2024 14:02:09
I have to say, while I understand Tom and other's reasons for not wanting Jose back, I could genuinely never say no to him managing us. It just feels right, he's woven into the fabric of this club. Perhaps I am being nostalgic and letting my heart rule my head.
Ed001 - do you subscribe to the view that his tactics are outdated? I personally feel that all this talk of systems etc is overblown by those watching games on tv. The basics, as you allude to in your initial reply, still matter. Defensive shape, knowing where to be, dominating both boxes, winning your individual battles. For all the talk of needing a philosophy, if you can't do these you aren't going to win. These attributes are instilled by the manager but down to the players thinking for themselves, in my opinion.
My only real concern with Jose would be him taking one training session with these players and thinking 'no thanks' to half of them. It does seem like he would immediately be at odds with ownership in that regard, no matter how clear each side made themselves in discussions beforehand.
{Ed001's Note - he is not outdated, I don't believe his tactics are a problem, it is just that he is not being given the right players.}
28 Feb 2024 14:21:30
RBD, I agree with your and Ed001’s comments about Poch, we will not move forward if he remains in post. As for Jackson you rightly pointed out that he was forced to play as a 9 in the last dozen or so games in Spain and I was amazed that he was touted as the answer to our cursed No 9 position. He is not a number 9 and never will be as he has s weak in the air and can’t head a football. That said, he has shown signs of skill and technical ability and should be played in his natural position out wide particularly as our wide players have been extremely poor this season. I have no idea who the next coach should be but if it were to be Jose, Sterling would have to pack his bags.
28 Feb 2024 14:36:42
I have to be honest, Jose is mot for me
Like Tom, he has had two bites of the cherry and both ended badly with us helping his bank balance.
The problem us, who takes over, I have to say not a clue.
28 Feb 2024 15:01:59
Jimbo, as I said to Ed001, I think Jose would have that opinion towards a lot of our players, but Sterling isn't one of them imo.
I know hoe this will sound, but had a few breaks gone our way on Sunday (Palmer chance, the marginal offside, the pinball at the end of the game) we would be sat here basking in the glory of a trophy despite how indifferent we have been in the league. When framed like that, it seems harsh to sack him now.
It does feel like we are at an inflection point of the season. In my opinion while I felt that Potter was routinely let down by historically bad finishing, we waited too long to fire him. Or more accurately, we shouldn't have waited as long as we did and by the time we did, we should have just kept him to the end of the season. If we go out of the cup tonight, with nothing left to play for and 3 months of the season to go, you wouldn't find many arguments from me with replacing him with Jose.
28 Feb 2024 16:14:57
Thank you ed1 for your replies.
As a chelsea fan I want stability but ed2 has already stated that a change is likely, I like Jose and I don't think he is out dated, he is a winner, my only problem is some players will shrink playing for him, but on the other hand some players would excel.
I've heard a lot of rumours about the sporting manager, but I don't know a lot about him.
If I had to choose, right now we need an experienced winner, Jose and jt as his assistant would galvanise the club almost straight away.
Up the blues x.
28 Feb 2024 16:48:53
RBD, to be clear I am not suggesting that Sterling is the only player with weak mentality; you are right if Jose took a training session he would probably throw a fit. We will have to agree to disagree about Sterling. I understand your point about missed chances and fine margins but our problems go well beyond missed chances. At this stage in the season the league table doesn’t lie and if you dig deeper and look at the teams we have actually beaten it is clear that we what the table suggests: a mid-table team. One last point on Poch. His post match comments are littered with excuses and I find it tiresome and difficult to watch lately.
28 Feb 2024 16:54:07
I wasn’t particularly enamoured with the idea of Poch taking over and I’m not sure he’s the solution but I do feel for him a bit. Nkunku was meant to be our striker solution (at least partially) gets injured like a week before the season starts after starring during pre-season. Out for 19 games, comes back for 30 mins and out injured for 3 weeks, comes back this last week and is again out injured for another month. We’ve underperformed our xG by like 14 or so I believe, if we’d scored those we’d be around 5th I think from the article I read.
Spent £200m in the summer on CM’s in Caicedo, Lavia and Ugochukwu and 2 of them have played about 60mins between them and been injured the rest. Chilwell and James have probably been our best players for the last 3 seasons and both been out injured for most the campaign.
If we were in 5th right now with all our players injury free, I doubt there’d be any talk about replacing Poch. I was raging at the tv in extra time at how we sat off and tried to play for penalties and that sort of mindset from Poch isn’t acceptable for a Chelsea manager, especially considering that we were basically playing against liverpools u21’s at that point.
I can understand wanting to change managers but I honestly don’t think we’d be any better unless we can get our injuries under control and can get a striker who can finish our chances.
28 Feb 2024 15:35:36
Hello everyone. I haven't posted in a long time.
After the last couple of games, especially the ones against Liverpool, I thought a change is very badly needed and as much as I want us to have some sort of stability, we need to sack Poch for the sake of our team. This team has and immense talent and I feel like with a true striker and a leader in the middle of the pitch, we are able to compete.
Thanks Ed001 for your detailed comment. I have always appreciated your insight.
Anyway, hopefully the board can change things ASAP and salvage this season for us and the team.
On Jose: I think he is the right answer for us at the moment and there is no better coach to get the best out of these young players. We once gave him a very young team and he delivered, I think he can do that again too.
{Ed001's Note - very welcome and I agree, I think he would relish the challenge.}
28 Feb 2024 17:43:19
What a fantastic thread, helped along with Ed’s thoughts on our present situation.
Jimbo, with the exception of Liverpool and Utd away I think we generally played well against the so called better teams. I was incredibly frustrated with our home performances against Villa, Brentford and Wolves. The Villa game for me was decided by a very poor refereeing decision. The games against the other two were, I admit, poor tactical performances.
Losing to the happy hammers at there place was just a bizarre result.
The problem is I can’t and Poch can’t keep on making excuses. Games are certainly decided by fine margins and maybe we have had our fair share of misfortunes but it’s about us not winning individual battles and lacking a “not getting beat attitude” that I have been most disappointed with.
28 Feb 2024 17:45:59
fuser, I agree with almost everything in you post. I’m certainly not convinced about changing another manager mid season.
If a change of manager is to happen I would prefer it to happen at the end of the season.
28 Feb 2024 17:50:30
I think part of the reason why Poch might see the season out is FFP, not entirely sure how close to the limit we are and whether there needs to be sales before June 30th as many websites claim, but if true I can’t imagine the owners would be willing to fork out another £30m to sack Poch to bring someone else in. Think it more likely they’ll wait til the next accounting period of July 1st.
Unless they put Poch on gardening leave and bring in Jose. Dunno how feasible that is ed001? I do think we put Conte (maybe? ) on gardening leave once before hoping to not have to terminate his contract and wait til he got another job at spurs?
{Ed001's Note - that is what usually happens rather than an actual sacking anyway. With the way contracts are in football, you have to pay them up, so teams tend to just hold managers to them and then hope someone else comes in to hire them and will pay it off. Or at least a percentage of it. At the very least they can come to an accommodation then with the former manager so that he can take up his new job.}